2008 Testimony by Reuven Hasak, former deputy head of Israel’s domestic security agency Shin Beit, since 1996 head of NDS Operational Security, a division of News Corporation. Cross-examination by EchoStar lawyer Chad Hagan about Exhibit 2009 and the Toronto incident.
12 BY MR. HAGAN:
13 Q Can you think of any particular instance where Oliver
14 Kommerling was instructed to conceal evidence of his
15 involvement in an undercover operation in the United States?
16 A I guess you refer to his visit to the United States, so
17 if he was concealing or not, I think he did something, but
18 not to conceal, but just to get away from the states, as far
19 as I recall, if — if you refer to the same operation.
20 Q And what do you mean “to get away from the United
22 A There was an operation that Oliver Kommerling went to
23 try and to meet, I think it was Marty Mullen, and to get
24 information from him.
25 Q Was that —
1 A And —
2 Q I’m sorry, go ahead. I’m sorry.
3 A And this operation was not a big success. He failed
4 doing it, and then he left the states.
5 Q And was that the operation where Mr. Kommerling
6 attempted to sell the EchoStar hack to Mr. Mullen for
7 $1 million?
8 A No. Never, never, no. It’s a big lie.
9 Q Mr. Kommerling also had an alias for his work within
10 NDS, correct?
11 A Yeah.
12 Q And that alias was Alex?
13 A Alex.
14 Q Let’s take a look at Exhibit 2009.
15 And before we get into the substance of this, do you
16 know an individual named Larry Rissler?
17 A Yeah, I know.
18 Q And during the ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, 2000 time frame,
19 Mr. Rissler worked for DirecTV?
20 A As far as I recall, yes.
21 Q Do you recall his position at DirecTV?
22 A He was the head of anti-piracy team.
23 Q He was the gentleman that you notified when you wanted
24 to do these undercover operations, correct?
25 A Which one?
1 Q Mr. Rissler.
2 A No, no. Which operation, I mean.
3 Q The undercover operations you —
4 A Johnny Walker?
5 Q Or others, yes, sir.
6 A Johnny Walker? I assume it would be Larry Rissler.
7 Q Now, looking at Exhibit 2009, this is another one of
8 the memorandums that you received — we can take a break if
9 you need water?
10 A Yeah, I need —
11 Q Sure.
12 THE COURT: You need a break?
13 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE WITNESS: I mean, I have to drink and —
16 THE COURT: Why don’t we do this. Why don’t we
17 come back in just a few moments. We’ll go to about 12:15
19 You’re admonished not to discuss this matter
20 amongst yourselves, nor form or express an opinion
21 concerning the case.
22 We’ll come and get you in less than 10 minutes,
23 and then we’ll be in session about another half hour.
24 Sir, why don’t you step down and rest for a
1 Counsel, just about 10 minutes, okay?
3 (The following proceedings is taken in the
4 presence of the jury.)
5 THE COURT: We are back in session. All counsel
6 are present.
7 Counsel, thank you for your courtesy, and the
9 And Counsel, if you’d like to continue your
11 THE WITNESS: Thank you for the intermission. I
12 got tea and feel better.
13 BY MR. HAGAN:
14 Q Now, Mr. Hasak, before we took a break, we were looking
15 at Exhibit 2009. Do you still have that document in front
16 of you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q This is another one of the reports that you received
19 from Mr. Adams; is that correct?
20 A Yes.
21 MR. HAGAN: Your Honor, we offer Exhibit 2009 into
23 THE COURT: 2009?
24 Counsel, any objection?
25 MR. SNYDER: No objection.
1 THE COURT: 2009 is received.
2 (Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 2009 is received
3 into evidence.)
4 BY MR. HAGAN:
5 Q And before we took a break, you said that Oliver
6 Kommerling’s code name or alias within NDS was Alex; is that
8 A Yes.
9 Q And so if you’ll look at page 1 of 2009 where it says
10 “Alex did not touch the card. His fingerprints would not be
11 on it.”
12 A Yes.
13 Q That’s referring to Mr. Kommerling?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And the fourth bullet point down, it says “The card
16 sent by PC to LR by FedEx could have come from any source,
17 and there is no continuity of evidence to suggest that it
18 was the card seen by Alex. As we all know, continuity of
19 exhibits is an essential ingredient in court cases. This
20 was the major point that ruled a great deal of evidence
21 inadmissible in the OJ trial, and they did not send the
22 exhibits by courier from another company — another
24 Do you know what Mr. Adams was referring to in that
1 A He’s referring — he is referring to one of the aspects
2 of this visit of Kommerling to the states, but once again,
3 he is going somewhere, you know — somewhere else.
4 Q Now, “LR,” I’m guessing that refers to Larry Rissler;
5 is that correct?
6 A Yeah.
7 Q Who is PC?
8 A I don’t remember. I assume it was one of Mr. Rissler’s
10 Q You are familiar with the alias “Jellyfish”?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And who was that gentleman?
13 A Jellyfish was a wheeler-dealer in the states trying to
14 make business with everyone, and his nickname “Jellyfish”
15 came out, because he was — he didn’t have any backbone,
16 nothing. He was just a wheeler-dealer and spin liar and
17 speaker and talker, and whatever. That was the reason for
18 calling him Jellyfish, so —
19 Q That was John Luiando (phonetic)?
20 A Yeah, John Luiando, yeah.
21 Q And as part of this undercover operation with
22 Mr. Kommerling, did he work with John Luiando for that
23 operation in the United States?
24 A I don’t remember. I have to look at the paper.
25 Q Now, you also said that Mr. Kommerling had to get out
1 of the United States. What did you mean by that?
2 A No. To leave the United States.
3 Q To leave the United States.
4 A There was some complications in the operation, because
5 of the — the conflict between Larry — between Larry
6 Rissler and Ray Adams and Kommerling and John Norris, so the
7 operation failed, and — and Alex was told by Ray Adams, I
8 guess — I assume, to — to leave the states.
9 Q Now, this — what was the name of this operation, the
10 one where Mr. Kommerling came to the United States?
11 A I don’t remember.
12 Q And you don’t recall whether or not this was the
13 operation where Mr. Kommerling was offering to sell the
14 EchoStar hack to Marty Mullen for one million dollars?
15 A No, it’s a lie by somebody.
16 Q Now, if you look at the second page, the last
17 paragraph, it says “John Norris says that the alert to the
18 airport was to effect the arrest” —
19 A Wait one moment. Sorry, I lost you. Where?
20 Q Sure. The bottom paragraph on page 2 of Exhibit —
21 A Yeah, yeah —
22 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.
23 Where are you going to start reading? Look at the
25 MR. HAGAN: At “JN.”
1 THE COURT: Thank you.
2 BY MR. HAGAN:
3 Q Mr. Hasak, the “JN,” that refers to John Norris?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Mr. Adams writes to you, “John Norris says that the
6 alert to the airports was to effect the arrest of Alex on
7 probable cause.” That’s referring to Mr. Kommerling,
9 A Yeah.
10 Q He would be searched and detained. The assumption
11 being that something would be found in his possession.
12 What do you understand Mr. Adams to be referring to
14 A He’s referring to the possibility that maybe someone
15 can find Alex, either computer, some — some material, which
16 refers to DirecTV, I assume.
17 Q But it’s not DirecTV, because you didn’t notify
18 Mr. Rissler about this operation?
19 A The reason I don’t think there was anything viable
20 regarding DirecTV.
21 Q And there’s only two satellite providers in the United
22 States, DirecTV and EchoStar, correct?
23 A If you say so. I don’t know. I am not aware of
24 anything else.
25 Q You’re not aware —
1 A I didn’t say — I didn’t say it was a software
2 regarding satellite TV.
3 Q Now, look at the next page of Exhibit 2009.
4 And let’s blow up the top two paragraphs, please,
6 BY MR. HAGAN:
7 Q At the top, Mr. Adams writes “Alex had absolutely
8 nothing with him. I even disobeyed your advice that he
9 could walk through with his laptop. He did not even have a
10 credit card with him. There would have been absolutely no
11 legitimate grounds for detaining him for a second. Had
12 anyone done so, there was a lawyer ready to get him out of
14 What is Mr. Adams referring to there?
15 A It’s another way of building up a story by Mr. Adams.
16 I tell him — him nothing to worry about. He doesn’t have
17 anything he can go through, and that’s it.
18 Q And then Mr. Adams further explains that in his next
19 paragraph where he says as follows:
20 “The only possible evidence that could ever have
21 existed to connect Alex to the card was what was on his PC.”
22 Now, you under — did you understand “card” to be
23 referring to a Smart Card?
24 A Yes, yes.
25 Q So do you believe, now, that this operation involved
1 conditional access systems for Smart Cards, for satellite TV
3 A Yes.
4 Q And it’s not related to the DirecTV system?
5 A I didn’t say so. I didn’t say so. It was related, but
6 not the software.
7 Q Now, Mr. Adams goes on and says, “About the computer,
8 it was wiped clean the same day the card was programmed. As
9 an extra precaution, the computer was broken into two parts
10 and sent by two separate courier companies to two separate
11 addresses in Germany. So what was on the card that LR
12 received from PC? It was the 3M program from Bill.”
13 Now, 3M, do you understand that to be referring to the
14 EchoStar 3M pirate card?
15 A No, it was — as far as I recall, it was DirecTV,
17 Q And “Bill,” that’s referring to Marty Mullen?
18 A Yes.
19 Q So what was on the card — I’m sorry.
20 It was a 3M program from Bill, of which there are
21 thousands in existence. Nothing existed, technically, to
22 connect Oliver to the card in either — either Canada, the
23 U.S.A. or Germany?
24 A Yeah, yes.
25 Q Now, when you received this memo from Mr. Adams, did
1 you understand that steps had been taken to conceal
2 Mr. Kommerling’s involvement in reprogramming 3M cards?
3 A No. I just understood that what is — this is what way
4 he’s writing. I did not take it for granted that this was
5 done or there was any reason to do it. I talked to him
7 MR. HAGAN: Now, two paragraphs down, Clint, if we
8 can blow that up. It’s the last full paragraph on this same
10 BY MR. HAGAN:
11 Q “Mr. Adams says, “We also discussed between ourselves,
12 that, quote, ‘under no circumstances must we tell Larry
13 Rissler that Oliver Kommerling works for us.'”
14 Why would you be concealing Oliver Kommerling’s
15 employment relationship with NDS from your largest client in
16 the United States?
17 A Because he had nothing to do with this client.
18 Q This operation had nothing to do with DirecTV?
19 A No. The — the project, the target of this operation
20 was to get from Marty Mullen what he has.