Reuven Hasak, head of NDS Operational Security, on the Toronto incident

2008 Testimony by Reuven Hasak, former deputy head of Israel’s domestic security agency Shin Beit, since 1996 head of NDS Operational Security, a division of News Corporation. Cross-examination by EchoStar lawyer Chad Hagan about Exhibit 2009 and the Toronto incident.

12   BY MR. HAGAN:

13   Q    Can you think of any particular instance where Oliver

14   Kommerling was instructed to conceal evidence of his

15   involvement in an undercover operation in the United States?

16   A    I guess you refer to his visit to the United States, so

17   if he was concealing or not, I think he did something, but

18   not to conceal, but just to get away from the states, as far

19   as I recall, if — if you refer to the same operation.

20   Q    And what do you mean “to get away from the United

21   States”?

22   A    There was an operation that Oliver Kommerling went to

23   try and to meet, I think it was Marty Mullen, and to get

24   information from him.

25   Q    Was that —


 1   A    And —

 2   Q    I’m sorry, go ahead.  I’m sorry.

 3   A    And this operation was not a big success.  He failed

 4   doing it, and then he left the states.

 5   Q    And was that the operation where Mr. Kommerling

 6   attempted to sell the EchoStar hack to Mr. Mullen for

 7   $1 million?

 8   A    No.  Never, never, no.  It’s a big lie.

 9   Q    Mr. Kommerling also had an alias for his work within

10   NDS, correct?

11   A    Yeah.

12   Q    And that alias was Alex?

13   A    Alex.

14   Q    Let’s take a look at Exhibit 2009.

15        And before we get into the substance of this, do you

16   know an individual named Larry Rissler?

17   A    Yeah, I know.

18   Q    And during the ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, 2000 time frame,

19   Mr. Rissler worked for DirecTV?

20   A    As far as I recall, yes.

21   Q    Do you recall his position at DirecTV?

22   A    He was the head of anti-piracy team.

23   Q    He was the gentleman that you notified when you wanted

24   to do these undercover operations, correct?

25   A    Which one?


 1   Q    Mr. Rissler.

 2   A    No, no.  Which operation, I mean.

 3   Q    The undercover operations you —

 4   A    Johnny Walker?

 5   Q    Or others, yes, sir.

 6   A    Johnny Walker?  I assume it would be Larry Rissler.

 7   Q    Now, looking at Exhibit 2009, this is another one of

 8   the memorandums that you received — we can take a break if

 9   you need water?

10   A    Yeah, I need —

11   Q    Sure.

12             THE COURT:  You need a break?

13             THE WITNESS:  Yeah.

14             THE COURT:  Okay.

15             THE WITNESS:  I mean, I have to drink and —

16             THE COURT:  Why don’t we do this.  Why don’t we

17   come back in just a few moments.  We’ll go to about 12:15

18   okay?

19             You’re admonished not to discuss this matter

20   amongst yourselves, nor form or express an opinion

21   concerning the case.

22             We’ll come and get you in less than 10 minutes,

23   and then we’ll be in session about another half hour.

24             Sir, why don’t you step down and rest for a

25   moment.


 1             Counsel, just about 10 minutes, okay?

 2             (Recess.)

 3             (The following proceedings is taken in the

 4        presence of the jury.)

 5             THE COURT:  We are back in session.  All counsel

 6   are present.

 7             Counsel, thank you for your courtesy, and the

 8   witness.

 9             And Counsel, if you’d like to continue your

10   cross-examination.

11             THE WITNESS:  Thank you for the intermission.  I

12   got tea and feel better.

13   BY MR. HAGAN:

14   Q    Now, Mr. Hasak, before we took a break, we were looking

15   at Exhibit 2009.  Do you still have that document in front

16   of you?

17   A    Yes.

18   Q    This is another one of the reports that you received

19   from Mr. Adams; is that correct?

20   A    Yes.

21             MR. HAGAN:  Your Honor, we offer Exhibit 2009 into

22   evidence.

23             THE COURT:  2009?

24             Counsel, any objection?

25             MR. SNYDER:  No objection.


 1             THE COURT:  2009 is received.

 2             (Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 2009 is received

 3        into evidence.)

 4   BY MR. HAGAN:

 5   Q    And before we took a break, you said that Oliver

 6   Kommerling’s code name or alias within NDS was Alex; is that

 7   correct?

 8   A    Yes.

 9   Q    And so if you’ll look at page 1 of 2009 where it says

10   “Alex did not touch the card.  His fingerprints would not be

11   on it.”

12   A    Yes.

13   Q    That’s referring to Mr. Kommerling?

14   A    Yes.

15   Q    And the fourth bullet point down, it says “The card

16   sent by PC to LR by FedEx could have come from any source,

17   and there is no continuity of evidence to suggest that it

18   was the card seen by Alex.  As we all know, continuity of

19   exhibits is an essential ingredient in court cases.  This

20   was the major point that ruled a great deal of evidence

21   inadmissible in the OJ trial, and they did not send the

22   exhibits by courier from another company — another

23   country.”

24        Do you know what Mr. Adams was referring to in that

25   section?


 1   A    He’s referring — he is referring to one of the aspects

 2   of this visit of Kommerling to the states, but once again,

 3   he is going somewhere, you know — somewhere else.

 4   Q    Now, “LR,” I’m guessing that refers to Larry Rissler;

 5   is that correct?

 6   A    Yeah.

 7   Q    Who is PC?

 8   A    I don’t remember.  I assume it was one of Mr. Rissler’s

 9   informants.

10   Q    You are familiar with the alias “Jellyfish”?

11   A    Yes.

12   Q    And who was that gentleman?

13   A    Jellyfish was a wheeler-dealer in the states trying to

14   make business with everyone, and his nickname “Jellyfish”

15   came out, because he was — he didn’t have any backbone,

16   nothing.  He was just a wheeler-dealer and spin liar and

17   speaker and talker, and whatever.  That was the reason for

18   calling him Jellyfish, so —

19   Q    That was John Luiando (phonetic)?

20   A    Yeah, John Luiando, yeah.

21   Q    And as part of this undercover operation with

22   Mr. Kommerling, did he work with John Luiando for that

23   operation in the United States?

24   A    I don’t remember.  I have to look at the paper.

25   Q    Now, you also said that Mr. Kommerling had to get out


 1   of the United States.  What did you mean by that?

 2   A    No.  To leave the United States.

 3   Q    To leave the United States.

 4   A    There was some complications in the operation, because

 5   of the — the conflict between Larry — between Larry

 6   Rissler and Ray Adams and Kommerling and John Norris, so the

 7   operation failed, and — and Alex was told by Ray Adams, I

 8   guess — I assume, to — to leave the states.

 9   Q    Now, this — what was the name of this operation, the

10   one where Mr. Kommerling came to the United States?

11   A    I don’t remember.

12   Q    And you don’t recall whether or not this was the

13   operation where Mr. Kommerling was offering to sell the

14   EchoStar hack to Marty Mullen for one million dollars?

15   A    No, it’s a lie by somebody.

16   Q    Now, if you look at the second page, the last

17   paragraph, it says “John Norris says that the alert to the

18   airport was to effect the arrest” —

19   A    Wait one moment.  Sorry, I lost you.  Where?

20   Q    Sure.  The bottom paragraph on page 2 of Exhibit —

21   A    Yeah, yeah —

22             THE COURT:  Just a moment, Counsel.

23             Where are you going to start reading?  Look at the

24   screen.

25             MR. HAGAN:  At “JN.”


 1             THE COURT:  Thank you.

 2   BY MR. HAGAN:

 3   Q    Mr. Hasak, the “JN,” that refers to John Norris?

 4   A    Yes.

 5   Q    Mr. Adams writes to you, “John Norris says that the

 6   alert to the airports was to effect the arrest of Alex on

 7   probable cause.”  That’s referring to Mr. Kommerling,

 8   correct?

 9   A    Yeah.

10   Q    He would be searched and detained.  The assumption

11   being that something would be found in his possession.

12        What do you understand Mr. Adams to be referring to

13   there?

14   A    He’s referring to the possibility that maybe someone

15   can find Alex, either computer, some — some material, which

16   refers to DirecTV, I assume.

17   Q    But it’s not DirecTV, because you didn’t notify

18   Mr. Rissler about this operation?

19   A    The reason I don’t think there was anything viable

20   regarding DirecTV.

21   Q    And there’s only two satellite providers in the United

22   States, DirecTV and EchoStar, correct?

23   A    If you say so.  I don’t know.  I am not aware of

24   anything else.

25   Q    You’re not aware —


 1   A    I didn’t say — I didn’t say it was a software

 2   regarding satellite TV.

 3   Q    Now, look at the next page of Exhibit 2009.

 4        And let’s blow up the top two paragraphs, please,

 5   Clint.

 6   BY MR. HAGAN:

 7   Q    At the top, Mr. Adams writes “Alex had absolutely

 8   nothing with him.  I even disobeyed your advice that he

 9   could walk through with his laptop.  He did not even have a

10   credit card with him.  There would have been absolutely no

11   legitimate grounds for detaining him for a second.  Had

12   anyone done so, there was a lawyer ready to get him out of

13   trouble.”

14        What is Mr. Adams referring to there?

15   A    It’s another way of building up a story by Mr. Adams.

16   I tell him — him nothing to worry about.  He doesn’t have

17   anything he can go through, and that’s it.

18   Q    And then Mr. Adams further explains that in his next

19   paragraph where he says as follows:

20        “The only possible evidence that could ever have

21   existed to connect Alex to the card was what was on his PC.”

22        Now, you under — did you understand “card” to be

23   referring to a Smart Card?

24   A    Yes, yes.

25   Q    So do you believe, now, that this operation involved


 1   conditional access systems for Smart Cards, for satellite TV

 2   providers?

 3   A    Yes.

 4   Q    And it’s not related to the DirecTV system?

 5   A    I didn’t say so.  I didn’t say so.  It was related, but

 6   not the software.

 7   Q    Now, Mr. Adams goes on and says, “About the computer,

 8   it was wiped clean the same day the card was programmed.  As

 9   an extra precaution, the computer was broken into two parts

10   and sent by two separate courier companies to two separate

11   addresses in Germany.  So what was on the card that LR

12   received from PC?  It was the 3M program from Bill.”

13        Now, 3M, do you understand that to be referring to the

14   EchoStar 3M pirate card?

15   A    No, it was — as far as I recall, it was DirecTV,

16   Three-Musketeers.

17   Q    And “Bill,” that’s referring to Marty Mullen?

18   A    Yes.

19   Q    So what was on the card — I’m sorry.

20        It was a 3M program from Bill, of which there are

21   thousands in existence.  Nothing existed, technically, to

22   connect Oliver to the card in either — either Canada, the

23   U.S.A. or Germany?

24   A    Yeah, yes.

25   Q    Now, when you received this memo from Mr. Adams, did


 1   you understand that steps had been taken to conceal

 2   Mr. Kommerling’s involvement in reprogramming 3M cards?

 3   A    No.  I just understood that what is — this is what way

 4   he’s writing.  I did not take it for granted that this was

 5   done or there was any reason to do it.  I talked to him

 6   later.

 7             MR. HAGAN:  Now, two paragraphs down, Clint, if we

 8   can blow that up.  It’s the last full paragraph on this same

 9   page.

10   BY MR. HAGAN:

11   Q    “Mr. Adams says, “We also discussed between ourselves,

12   that, quote, ‘under no circumstances must we tell Larry

13   Rissler that Oliver Kommerling works for us.'”

14        Why would you be concealing Oliver Kommerling’s

15   employment relationship with NDS from your largest client in

16   the United States?

17   A    Because he had nothing to do with this client.

18   Q    This operation had nothing to do with DirecTV?

19   A    No.  The — the project, the target of this operation

20   was to get from Marty Mullen what he has.

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